99 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

People don't care about ECM much anymore because people don't want to carry missiles at all anymore. (For obvious reasons among the missiles themselves...)

Thus PGI has made a very smart move regarding protecting their stance on ECM- whether it was intentional or not.


ECM is obviously overpowered and effectively crippled missile usage.
(Like breaking a finger at a knuckle)
Missiles have been nerf to uselessness regardless of ECM.
(Like cutting the whole finger off..)

Thus, no one worries about ECM (the broken finger) because missiles have been effectively removed(the finger has been cut off.)


Well played PGI.. well played. reCall of Mechwarrior IV: Jumpsniper Edition appreciates you.

[Joseph Mallan]

Why do I see Yakuza after reading your post???

[Billygoat]

ECM appears to be somebody's favourite little pet design project, and they will buff and nerf and rebalance around it so it doesn't have to be properly evaluated and balanced. It is deeply odd the kind of fetishism that surrounds ECM at PGI.

Edited by Billygoat, 01 May 2013 - 05:00 AM.

[Darwins Dog]

Billygoat, on 01 May 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

ECM appears to be somebody's favourite little pet design project, and they will buff and nerf and rebalance around it so it doesn't have to be properly evaluated and balanced. It is deeply odd the kind of fetishism that surrounds ECM at PGI.

They're are actually going to change ECM directly in an upcoming patch. Look at the last two points in the post. Those are direct nerfs to ECM. It may not be the specific changes that you want, but it is a nerf.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

He's kinda right tho.

Ecm was a hard counter that never was in TT, never was in any other MechWarrior, and should never have been in MW:O

But, an ever bigger problem is missiles have been broken since day 1.

Darwins Dog, on 01 May 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

They're are actually going to change ECM directly in an upcoming patch. Look at the last two points in the post. Those are direct nerfs to ECM. It may not be the specific changes that you want, but it is a nerf.

Making an ECM hadpoint does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. And the cutting out of friendly mechs has nothing to do with anything that makes ECM a huge issue in the missile balance.

Light v Light will still be dominated by ECM + Streaks. And ECM is still a hard counter to LRMs, which are still crap.

Edited by mwhighlander, 01 May 2013 - 05:26 AM.

[Livewyr]

Darwins Dog, on 01 May 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

They're are actually going to change ECM directly in an upcoming patch. Look at the last two points in the post. Those are direct nerfs to ECM. It may not be the specific changes that you want, but it is a nerf.

Hardpoint? I suppose technically.. that's a "nerf".. but is that really a nerf? (especially on a light mech..)

Removing team-mate removal disruption is nice; removes 1 of the many "wtf" questions from the new player..

Why can't I lock that mech?
Why can't I target that mech?
Why can't I see anyone on radar?
Why can't I lock any mech?
Why can't I fire my streaks?

1 down...

[Livewyr]

mwhighlander, on 01 May 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

But, an ever bigger problem is missiles have been broken since day 1.

Indeed broken- in two ways at a time:

1: Damage: Either way too high or way too low. (Would prefer damage around 1.0-1.4, somewhere in there, with a faster missile speed.)

2: Slow slow sloowww speed: Slow speed means they require more time to use (since they're not fire and forget). Requiring more time to use makes them a burden on the other weapons in a mixed load-out, or vice-versa. Not being fluidly compatible with a mixed loadout means they get boated. We all love missile boats...

[AnarchyBurger]

Darwins Dog, on 01 May 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

They're are actually going to change ECM directly in an upcoming patch. Look at the last two points in the post. Those are direct nerfs to ECM. It may not be the specific changes that you want, but it is a nerf.

Hardly nerfs. The hardpoint is another WTF decision, and just seems like bad decision making. The second seems more like a standing bug than nerf.

Honestly yea ECM is OP, but they could solve alot of issues by splitting up the abilities between the DISRUPT and COUNTER modes. You should have to switch to COUNTER to... Get this... COUNTER (such as the current DISRUPT ability which locks out missle at close range along with a slew of other issues). And DISRUPT should just block radar ID and lock on. I know that seems crazy but you know, it might actually make sense and balance at the same time.

Edited by AnarchyBurger, 01 May 2013 - 05:57 AM.

[Rackminster]

Otto Cannon, on 01 May 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

The hardpoint change will make no difference, and removing disruption to the ECM user's team is actually a buff to ECM because it removes the only downside of using it.

I think you read that wrong.

Currently hostile ECM prevents you from seeing where your allies are on the minimap. The second change (as I read it) was going to prevent a hostile from depriving you of seeing where your allies are, but will still obscure where the hostiles are. That is a nerf, however a very very weak one. ECM "Low Singal" minimap readouts never really caused me to lose track of where my team was. At best it simply tells me that there's a Mech somewhere within shootin' range and I need to find it.

Edited by Rackminster, 01 May 2013 - 06:02 AM.

[Keifomofutu]

Otto Cannon, on 01 May 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

Nope.

The hardpoint change will make no difference, and removing disruption to the ECM user's team is actually a buff to ECM because it removes the only downside of using it.

Didn't they mean that if you ecm disrupted an enemy that he could still see his team and that his team could still see him? Unlike now when everybody disappears off radar when an enemy scout runs by you.

aaand clever girl poster above clever girl.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 01 May 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[Darwins Dog]

Otto Cannon, on 01 May 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

Nope.

The hardpoint change will make no difference, and removing disruption to the ECM user's team is actually a buff to ECM because it removes the only downside of using it.

I think you misread that last one (or it's possible that I did). It will remove the feature where an enemy ECM hides you from your teammates' radar. One of the issues is that when the enemy 3L shows up is that you disappear from friendly radar and they don't know where to go to help you.

The hardpoint change may make more of a difference than you think. It only has 3hp (like a gauss rifle), so if you know where it is on every mech, you can eliminate it more easily.

Regardless of the specifics, my point was that they ARE changing ECM. The post I quoted claimed that they will never nerf it. I was demonstrating that they, in fact, are changing it. It's not the "nerf into the ground" that many people were hoping for, but it is a nerf. I would like to see other (bigger) changes myself, but I would rather see a series of small changes than one big one.

[Keifomofutu]

It's funny, the best ideas for ecm balance I generally read on the forums. The current laughable 4 sec ecm disruption from getting hit by ppc does nothing to actually counter ecm. It's not even long enough to get a single lrm strike in.

Someone suggested a more effective counter would be for ecm to be knocked out until the mech had a chance to shut down and start up again. If this were the case that light who thought it was so cool to run around dodging fire would actually be forced to leave the area to get his ecm working again. In other words ppc disruption would actually be something of a counter and not just a pretend counter.

[Fooooo]

Rackminster, on 01 May 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

I think you read that wrong.

Currently hostile ECM prevents you from seeing where your allies are on the minimap. The second change (as I read it) was going to prevent a hostile from depriving you of seeing where your allies are, but will still obscure where the hostiles are. That is a nerf, however a very very weak one.

ECM "Low Singal" minimap readouts never really caused me to lose track of where my team was. At best it simply tells me that there's a Mech somewhere within shootin' range and I need to find it.

The ECM low signal has nothing to do with the losing teammates on radar really....thats just telling you an ECM enemy is nearby to YOU.

If you are 1000m away from him, then you wont get the low sig, but you still wont be able to see any of your allies on the minimap if they are near that ECM mech 1000m away. You also wont see the friendly pips over their heads.

This is what is changing I think. So you should be able to see your allies triangles even if they are in enemy ECM bubbles, above their heads and on the minimap.

Much better for the new players, and for long range players who happen upon a brawl and cant figure out who is who.

Edited by Fooooo, 01 May 2013 - 06:09 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

LOL Tell that to the 6 of 8 guys we butchered in a Pug game, and the enemy had ECM, with Long Range Missiles last night. It was a fine Match.

That soapbox is all used up dude. You may step down now, someone wants up on it.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 01 May 2013 - 06:33 AM.

[General Taskeen]

MaddMaxx, on 01 May 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

LOL Tell that to the 6 of 8 guys we butchered in a Pug game, and the enemy had ECM, with Missiles. It was a fine Match. That soapbox is all used up dude. You may step down now, someone wants up on it.

Who are you even referencing? The OP? Sounds you are stroking E-Peens. Without evidence of even the basic skill level of your opponents, whatever you are attempting to stroke kind of makes your statement fall flat. Someone with all "cheese" this, "min/max" that, or "ecm" does not make one team great, they must prove first that they can exploit it. With the current state of balance itself in regards, to pretty much everything in the game at the moment, your fine match proves nothing.

ECM was a badly implemented item from the get-go in December 2012. Subsequent patches introduced the "big-fish" balance effect. Equip this->To Counter, To Counter That->Equip This. The point is that is not what it is supposed to be, and has never been that in TT or other Mech titles, and it was to cover up the issue of missile systems at the time.

Edited by General Taskeen, 01 May 2013 - 06:36 AM.

[Star Captain Obvious Kerensky]

MaddMaxx, on 01 May 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

LOL Tell that to the 6 of 8 guys we butchered in a Pug game, and the enemy had ECM, with Missiles. It was a fine Match. That soapbox is all used up dude. You may step down now, someone wants up on it.

oooh, I can play the anecdote game too!

I got two Solo kills with my Machine Gun spider K. The only mechs left on the enemy team where LRM boats. Sure it took 4 tons of ammo and 5 minutes of shooting, but I eventually chewed through the rear armor and killed them! Therefore machine guns are an awesome weapon and don't need a buff.

[Keifomofutu]

Eldragon, on 01 May 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

oooh, I can play the anecdote game too!

I got two Solo kills with my Machine Gun spider K. The only mechs left on the enemy team where LRM boats. Sure it took 4 tons of ammo and 5 minutes of shooting, but I eventually chewed through the rear armor and killed them! Therefore machine guns are an awesome weapon and don't need a buff.

nurf please.

Oooh I'll bring a warthunder joke over here.

ECM is clearly far too overpowered.
Nerf machine guns!

Edited by Keifomofutu, 01 May 2013 - 06:36 AM.

[Otto Cannon]

Rackminster, on 01 May 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

I think you read that wrong.

Keifomofutu, on 01 May 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

Didn't they mean that if you ecm disrupted an enemy that he could still see his team and that his team could still see him?

Darwins Dog, on 01 May 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

I think you misread that last one

Yes, my mistake. Derp.

[Livewyr]

MaddMaxx, on 01 May 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

LOL Tell that to the 6 of 8 guys we butchered in a Pug game, and the enemy had ECM, with Long Range Missiles last night. It was a fine Match.

That soapbox is all used up dude. You may step down now, someone wants up on it.

I once got 7 kills and 1 assist in a Raven 3L in a pug game, with over 1400 damage.. and that was before ECM was introduced..
How dare they buff the 3L?


1999 Damage in a Jenner F with 6 kills and 2 Assists..
Why haven't they done anything to the Jenner?

2560 damage in a 2LRM15/2LRM10 + Artemis Catapult C4
Missiles? What the heck are missiles?


Stupid anecdote game is stupid. (If balance were based on anecdotes, everything in the game would be nerfed to the ground because SOMEONE is good at using EVERYTHING..)

[Fate 6]

Darwins Dog, on 01 May 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

They're are actually going to change ECM directly in an upcoming patch. Look at the last two points in the post. Those are direct nerfs to ECM. It may not be the specific changes that you want, but it is a nerf.

That literally does nothing. Even making a hardpoint does not help the actual issue. LRM and Streak-using mechs cannot target the hardpoint, even if they can somehow get a lock on the ECM mech.